Sivan Alyra Rose Is Finding Her Niche
An interview with the breakout star of Netflix's 'Chambers' on meeting her public, losing her Twitter, and embracing American identity
Remember 2019? Sivan Alyra Rose will never forget it, because it was the year when she made her anti-ingenue debut in the Netflix series Chambers, becoming (at age 19) the first Native American actor to lead a TV series. Her character, Sasha Yazzie, is a high schooler who learns that her recent heart transplant came from the daughter of a rich, white family with lots of secrets; suffice to say, there are strings attached.
2019 will also prove memorable as the year that took Chambers away. Netflix canceled the series after just one season, for reasons that remain unclear — although as you watch the show, after several episodes you can sense it being refocused and rewritten right before your eyes. Like Sasha herself, gradually its heart and body no longer correlate.
These are common enough problems in a TV series, but there’s nothing common about Sivan, whether in the role or in real life. On-screen, her refreshing combination of grit and sensitivity ends up providing the steel thread of continuity that makes it worthwhile to see the series through to the final episode. Off-screen, she represents the Hollywood that’s urgently trying to catch up with real life, to tell stories that reflect our exhilarating (and horrifying) new age, drawing from America’s true wealth of diversity. And through cancellation she has also come to represents the dark mirror side of Hollywood that still persists: all the power it refuses to cede; the personalities it struggles to accommodate; the way it hungers for things it knows it can’t digest.
Now it’s 2020, the production industry’s “Year Zero.” While major arts industries struggle to adapt, survival comes more naturally to artists like Sivan who can still speak as plainly and create just as freely as ever, even if success remains far from guaranteed.
During our conversation below, it occurred to me for the first time that even if Chambers hadn’t been canceled last year, production would have very likely ended anyway due to COVID-19.
“Exactly!” said Sivan. “And no one could have seen it. We just don’t know. That’s what’s crazy about hindsight.”
TOM BLUNT: Originally, I was excited to watch Chambers because my friend Khan Baykal was also in it [as “Deacon”].
SIVAN ALYRA ROSE: Yes, legend.
TB: And then after the first episode I looked you up on Twitter, and was impressed to see you out there just pulling zero punches, calling people out. My first impression was: “Netflix is gonna have their hands full with this one.” Because you were just being yourself, instead of the polished media figure we’re so used to seeing. I saw this as a feature, it’s exactly the kind of new blood the industry needs.
SAR: I appreciate that. I get that comment a lot about my social media presence.
TB: Then later, when we were casting a panel about mental health for the Midsummer Scream horror convention, I remembered you because of that style of speaking out, and the way you openly address the traumas of racism and colonialism. By then Chambers had already been canceled, but I wanted to help extend that moment as long as possible, and make sure you were getting the full honors befitting a rising star in horror. As a moderator it was still a little scary to bring in someone so outspoken and try to "moderate" their voice! But you ended up being the smoothest public speaker, and the most impressive possible representative of literally any community.
SAR: [Laughs] Thank you.
TB: I know you aren't representing just one community, though. So for those who don’t know you, I wanted to start by asking who you see as your people. Who do you represent? When you walk into the room, who walks in with you?
SIVAN ALYRA ROSE: I think the heart of it is, I am San Carlos Apache. It is not necessarily a “race,” you know what I mean? It’s a beautiful amalgamation of culture and indigeneity that’s prevailed for centuries. And on my father’s side (who I’m close with) I am Carribean and Creole, I’m from Puerto Rico and Cape Verde off of Africa. So I have a Black lineage that is just as strong and as rooted in the founding of this country. My grandparents emigrated over into this country, started the life for my father, which turns into meeting my mother. And then here I am, in the middle of their chaos. *laughs*
So I identify as Black/Indigenous, that’s who I am and who I speak up for. But at the same time, I live in America, and although it is colonized, like… a bunch of people live here and all contribute to everything. So, I am pro-Black and very pro-Indigenous, but also lately I’m like, what happened to “the Americans”?
I listened to Obama’s recent speech, and I feel like he just Presidented this country over the internet. I felt that finally someone had spoken some goddamn sense to my age, to my choir. And so lately I feel like: I’m going to be riding-and-dying for my Black Indigenous culture, but also, I’m an American. I’ve got to deal with what’s in my country.
TB: That, by the way, is exactly the kind of answer that exemplifies what I meant about having you on the panel! But speaking of your Twitter, somehow I’d missed the fact that since then, your main account has been purged. WTF happened?
SAR: Oof. So my verified Twitter account — blue check and everything, with a decent amount of followers, including celebrities, et cetera — in a day, everything was deleted.
I’ve had that account since 2010, before I was even considering any kind of entertainment career. My first tweet (I googled it, I did the tweet generator thing) was about Lady Gaga’s VMA performance, and how much it changed me. [Laughs]
TB: I love how that was the moment that sent you running to Twitter. “The people must know!”
SAR: Exactly, it was my time! So when the account was deleted, I don’t know exactly what happened. I remember the day, I got a weird notification on my phone from the app asking me to re-enter my birthday. And I did, that’s the only thing I can remember that was weird that day. And then a couple hours later, I get an email that’s like: “We have to suspend your account.”
For multiple reasons, one of them being that I’d made the account before I was thirteen years old. And the other being: “You have been reported.” Like I was constantly being flagged and blocked for sensitive content.
I tried to get it back, because there’s an appeal process, but those emails just never went anywhere. And it’s expensive to get your publicist involved, to do all that. So I’ve just been thinking, eh, when I come back, I come back.
I’m still technically on there! I’m “celebrity account ex machina” on YBI Studios.
TB: So in the meantime you’re mainly an Instagram entity?
SAR: Yeah, with the fancy blue badge!
TB: So with everything that happened with Chambers, and then this Twitter stuff -- I’m not saying any of it’s related, but it must have seemed like windows were just closing right before your eyes.
SAR: Exactly. I’m constantly faced with — like what you said, impressions of me on social media at first glance are one thing, and then when people meet me they usually have a different impression. That’s just normal, for anybody. But lately I have to ask myself, do I need to censor? What should I be putting out there, or not putting out there? What is my “branding,” et cetera. In 2020 everyone thinks they’re a product; you have to be sellable in this crazy society.
So lately I’ve really had to let all that go, and just post.
TB: A few years ago I spoke to Cherokee actress Sheri Foster, who was on Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, and she said that my request was the first press outreach she’d ever gotten related to that show, even though it had touched off a whole debate online about representation and cultural appropriation. That part really surprised me; it seems that non-Natives feel way more comfortable talking about Native Americans, even in supportive ways, than talking to them. Like we do this polite white “don’t want to intrude” thing, but it still ends up being weirdly paternal?
SAR: I get that. People higher up feel their opinion is higher than the other people around them, they always feel like they have the room and the right to speak on whatever subject they’re speaking on. Sometimes it’s really nice when they acknowledge where they’re coming from, their perspective.
But even when I saw Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, I thought it was kind of funny. Because like you said, I haven’t seen much about the Native cast that played Jacqueline’s mother and father. They’re really big Native actors too.
And the storyline that’s in the show, it was funny because it’s a commentary on what’s happening. It’s almost like there was another opportunity missed to talk about it back then, when this show was doing so well. And they even take down the Washington Redskins! But no one was talking about that.
TB: As everything unfolded with Chambers, did you feel that your perspective was sought, and that your voice was able to be heard? Or did you feel it was all controlled, and that other folks got the last word?
SAR: So, there were two marketing teams I was working with. There was my personal team with my publicist and the house they’re under, and then Netflix’s marketing team. They all understood that I’m an artist, that I’m creative and have a lot of my own ideas. There was a lot of permission-asking, and being like “Hey we like your vibe, can we use your products?” And I would even contribute art sometimes too, and photography. So at the beginning it was very back-and-forth and collaborative, super chill.
Then as we got closer to press, and the premiere, [the show] kind of took a 180 in the aesthetic and demographic they were going for. I might have been left out of the conversation about what we were going to change, marketing-wise, as we got closer to release.
So I just kept doing what I was doing, in terms of posting and so forth. And they’d tell me something I was doing was inappropriate, and I’d be like “Aight, whatever, I’m just gonna delete this.” It was just like, for example, posts where I was wearing something that Sasha [the character] was wearing in the show, but before it had premiered. Stuff like that. So it was really no big deal.
So then we get down to the nitty-gritty and the show’s out, we have the premiere, I’m “verified.” My publicist did an amazing job and got me in some amazing circles on YouTube. I was very adamant that I wanted to have an educational base to everything I do… because I’m a little eccentric, so I wanted to show people that I am serious about at least these few things.
Oddly enough — real T, you’re going to get the scoop here — I still don’t necessarily know what straw ultimately broke the camel’s back in terms of cancellation. But I know for sure one problem was the “virality” of it. There was proof — numbers from the platform, analytics that can show activity from everyone that’s on it — that the show was doing well. It had amazing numbers. From my end on social media, the amount of celebrities talking about Chambers and circulating it was amazing. But there was a lack of… well, for lack of a better word, “memes.” On their end, they felt we needed more of that social media attention.
But I didn’t know what to do. I can’t just “go viral.” I can’t just do that. You can pay to get there, you can pay for tons of exposure. And I even told them, I personally felt the issue was that when it comes to Indigenous people in America, the education about us is like, nonexistent. People don’t even believe Indigenous people exist. Statistically, a huge amount of Americans think we’re like, something from the Bible, that we died along with Jesus. You know what I mean?
[Editor: some of that research can be found here.]
So during every marketing call, I was like “I’m gonna do my best. I think we’re doing good. But as a giant, multi-million dollar corporate network, I think y’all are going to have to do some grinding and research in other fields.” Because I can’t do everything!
TB: Right, and you were how old, at the time?
SAR: I turned 19 on set. It was my first run with anyone on that scale of corporate entertainment. And I wasn’t the coolest bitch from the block. I wasn’t trying to be! I had amazing co-stars to carry this amazing show with. I was just never going to be painted as a superficial lead, it was never my vibe.
TB: Chambers had first blipped on my radar years before, as a project Uma Thurman was attached to, so I kept tabs during production. You and I have talked before about the incredible highs and the bone-deep sense of approval that came from getting to work with someone you admire so greatly. But then these lows that followed... even if you can’t take them personally, just watching as something like this slips through everyone’s fingers has got to be really difficult.
SAR: Yeah, especially because it’s still my start. I haven’t technically had another role yet, after Chambers. I’m still auditioning, and have had great auditions for movies that have since come out with like, A-listers in them. So I’m grateful that I’m even being considered in those circles!
I have to tell you though, the day I got the call from the show’s writer/creator saying we were getting pulled, I remember that too. My heart dropped. I cried, after we hung up. But I was like… I can’t let that get to me. Because in my heart and soul I knew better, I knew the show was better than that.
Failure is defined by me. My successes are defined by me. So, I just don’t see this as a failure.
TB: Shows get canceled all the time, even ones with more seasons and a bigger fanbase still weirdly get canceled. If it can happen to Drew Barrymore, it can happen to anyone.
SAR: Exactly. It’s the way the cookie crumbles. That’s why I just keep auditioning, I still get the same excitement — I’m giddy for roles I’ve auditioned for. You know, just in case I get it! I might get the role! I enjoy it.
TB: As an artist you seem unconstrained by medium or subject, which I have really enjoyed following. I love your paintings, and was obsessed with the recent Instagram video you produced [Ed.: scroll to the final panel], that recreated classic character customization scenes. I’ve been wondering, how do you organize or prioritize your projects... or do you even? Are there longer-term things you're working on right now?
SAR: I definitely keep room for spontaneity, it’s something that keeps my creativity going. I have to swallow a lot of fears. I push myself; not in a way that’s stressful, but in that I know I want to do something. And those fears I’m feeling aren’t necessarily that scary. It’s maybe just a bunch of projection I end up putting on myself.
When it comes to my art, I’m a painter. I’ve been painting. Painting on canvas is my starting and ending medium. So that’s probably my most regular artistic thing: I’m always trying to do a painting. But my art studio, You’ve Been Invited Studios, has branched into the multimedia world, because I trained at the Institute of American Indian Arts in Santa Fe, New Mexico for studio art, among multiple mediums. I even did some metalsmithing, blacksmithing, for a while too, just to see what I could do.
So when You’ve Been Invited Studios came around, my love for video and photography, my love for design, it all flourished together. I know I have a style as an artist, and it’s going to be represented in the work I do, no matter what the medium is.
Above: Artwork from Sivan’s sketchbook, to be shown at an upcoming gallery event
TB: There are so many ways for artists to "meet" and be supported by their public nowadays, even though conventions and events have mostly shriveled up. You and I have talked about the creative use of OnlyFans as a way to challenge the traditional dynamic and have a transaction that you’re fully in control of. How is that experiment going?
SAR: My OnlyFans debut? It’s actually been kind of fun, and very eye-opening. At first I was putting a lot of pressure on myself regarding the sexual content that lots of people do on OnlyFans, but that’s not all it is! Even the website itself lets you know that. “That’s not all you have to do here.”
At the same time, I was interested in owning my sexuality and my sexiness, which I love to have fun with, and am not really shy about. But I did want to be respected, and have some kind of control of that content. So then I was like, maybe OnlyFans is for me. It feels almost just like uncensored, private social media. I talk to everyone on there just as I talk to my Instagram people; it’s just anonymous, and they’re a bit more possessive because of the transaction, but all they’re really expecting is the kind of stuff they’re not going to see on Instagram or Twitter.
It’s helped me get to know who my fanbase is, who my supporting demographics really are, and why people are interested in me. What my niche is, I guess! I’m centering in on that.
TB: So as you know, I too grew up in small-town Arizona, under the spell of this sort of witless colonist fantasy....
SAR: I was fully gagged when I discovered you were an Arizonian! [Laughs] Only Arizonans understand the odd existence that state is.
TB: Yes! So, I knew Indian reservations existed, but literally had no idea where they were, or how close they were. Same with the Mexican neighborhoods. Growing up, our sense of geography was entirely dictated by these other factors that were passed down very informally. If no one took you to certain places, you just inferred that they weren’t for you, and were never particularly curious to find out what you were missing out on. And for lots of people, this becomes how they view the entire world.
SAR: And like what were you gonna do, get on Google Maps? Like, “What’s over in that direction?”
TB: That’s the funny thing, when I was a teenager my friends and I would literally drive in directions we’d never driven before, just to see what was over there. At the time there just weren’t a lot of other options. And meanwhile, a few dozen miles away, people are growing up learning entirely different things, speaking different languages, developing a different awareness of reality. So when you talk about life on the Reservation, that really intrigues me. Because when I was growing up very nearby, I knew that everything around me seemed wrong, but it was very hard to figure out how to access other views.
So I guess I want to ask: what was your map like, in terms of where you felt like you belonged? And what were the parts of your early life that best prepared you to exist in the world as you find it now?
SAR: I feel all that, because honestly… Shit. When you grow up on the Rez, and you go to school on the Reservation (in the public school out on the Rez) and you don’t go into the municipal or major cities very often, you do get accustomed to just living in the community that you’re in.
On the Rez, I was a bit of an outlier, a bit of a sore thumb being mixed. And then when I was off of the Rez, being from the Rez was still this whole other thing I had to deal with.
I talked about this in my Mic.com interview during the Chambers press tour, I discussed the odd existence the Rez has, and the way it contributes to a lot of people’s way of thinking. I would always just be straight-up with my friends, though. That’s one thing I learned to do for myself, because I had friends who didn’t understand exactly where I was coming from— or even literally where I was coming from. You build a thick skin having weird, gritty conversations like that. You get really good at humility, I guess, in those conversations.
One thing I like to say is that among lots of Natives, from every reservation across North America, there’s definitely a grounding of respect. We all practice very different cultures, and have very different symbolism, and creation stories, and knowledge passed down, but there’s this line of respect that you learn being on the Rez and being in the community, around the community, with the community, which I totally wouldn’t have anywhere else. Without it there’s no way I’d be the kind of respectful person I feel I am.
And it’s only because we know, we learn very quickly that we’re not on the same page as a lot of people, and to just be ready for that. Literally be ready for that, and how you’re gonna handle yourself! Are you going to let yourself get pissed off every time? Or are you just going to get better at letting it be water off your back?
TB: Looking ahead at the future can be so grim, especially for people your age, but you seem extremely connected to the playful and idealistic side of your personality, and generous with it. It’s wonderful to see you just amusing yourself. And yet that doesn’t compromise the anger and hurt that comes from having a realistic view of life, which is also very close to the surface. So what, if anything, inspires you, and gives you hope? How do you protect the soft parts of yourself while all the other parts are fighting?
SAR: That’s an amazing question. And thank you for asking, because I’ve had to do a lot of work on that kind of process, especially in the last couple of months!
I went into some dark times, mentally; I was just so stressed. It was everywhere, everyone in this country experienced it all at once. The unemployment, the upheaval of any plans you had for later in the year, and it totally threw me for a loop. But I realized I have the power and ability to be at least a little positive as it goes on.
Like okay, that happened; I cannot control it, or change what has already been done, but i can totally control my response. I could at least do my best not to push myself to a completely stressed point. Because I’ll get there by other means! Other things will totally surprise you and make you go up the wall.
But lately, my hopes are: One, that I’m alive, I’m Indigenous. That’s very important, the fact that I’m still just alive and surviving today. And two is that there is a future. The world isn’t over; we’re still gonna be going ahead. And my greatest hope is, I’m not gonna back down anytime soon to the oppression everywhere right now, so I hope no one else is either.
My mantra lately has been: Stay the course, and do not let up now. Like you said, even at the beginning: my perspective, the way I spoke, the way I was, it wasn’t everyone else’s way of doing things, and may have put roadblocks in my career. But now we’re on this path of… basically, the shit I’ve been saying, and which people for generations before me have been saying, it seems like other people are ready to delve into those perspectives a little further.
That’s what I’ve been appreciating. In case you want to hear my voice, I’m going to at least just speak.
